| Author |
 Topic  |
|
KurtS
Junior Member
92 Posts |
 Posted - 11/02/2009 : 09:18:16 AM
|
Rory, what's your problem,dude??? You started the "pissing match" and now you want to run and hide.
Capt Ron, you are guilty of bashing 2 stokes also.
I don't understand why you guys are so attached to your 4 strokes that you must belittle us 2 strokes owners. We know you are "in love" with your engines but don't attack 2 stoke owners. Your harsh criticism is very aggrativing. Remember, this is supposed to be gentlemanly discussion on the forum.
Once again, I would not trade my E-tec for any 4 stroke. |
 |
|
|
JD
Advanced Member
642 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2009 : 11:30:21 AM
|
| Don't you know yet that WHATEVER any poster has ITS the best. |
|
|
|
tbonez
Average Member
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2009 : 12:43:07 PM
|
a hornets nest is right ,aj!
I just put some popcorn on,if anyone wants some.....
let's get those true feelings out,tell us how ya really feel.......Gotta love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
|
|
|
ajlandry
Moderator
USA
1571 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2009 : 3:40:12 PM
|
OK, Guys, it's fine to have a "spirited discussion", but PLEASE, let's keep it civil! Everyone has their own opinion about this and that. We can debate and respect the other guys opinion also. Can't we?
"Pete" - Live every day like there's no tomorrow - go fishing! |
|
|
|
KurtS
Junior Member
92 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2009 : 4:53:07 PM
|
Well said, aj. I agree.
Great job as moderator. |
|
|
|
Sandman1
Advanced Member
USA
1177 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2009 : 4:56:30 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Capt Ron
I think most(all?) of the old 2 strokes you see or hear about that have thousands of hours on them are on their second or third(fourth?) powerhead. Old 2 strokes on their original powerhead probably had very low hours on them for the first few years. Commercial fisherman, who put many more hours on engines than recreationals, usually have newer engines, although they are beat up and run hard. If you see an old engine on a commercial boat, you can bet it has a newer powerhead. Question: Why would Yamaha(a big successful company) be discontinuing a outboard engine line? Possible answers: 1. rapidly declining sales, 2. 4 stroke technology improvements, 3. less reliable hi-tech 2 stroke engines, 4. a desire to sell an engine that won't last as long(per Ed?), 5. can't get rid of them?
Yamaha succeeded in making a quieter, fuel efficient, less polluting two stroke engine that fewer and fewer people want to buy. That is probably the correct answer.
You forgot one. Government pressure via mandates, penalties, taxes, etc. No one chose to go to 4 strokes in the first place. The government told us that they would be phased out.
I don't have a problem with 4 strokes, would like to have one before too much longer, but I do have a problem with that choice being made for me by good old uncle sam.
Is it time for a cold beer yet? |
Edited by - Sandman1 on 11/02/2009 4:59:56 PM |
|
|
|
Big John
Advanced Member
USA
1113 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2009 : 12:23:51 PM
|
I don't understand the debate. What is there to debate? Unless you buy a two stroke now, you won't be able to buy one. I plan on keeping my 2000 two stroke yamaha 90 for at least another 6-7 years. Runs great and is paid for. When I finally get a new motor it will be a 4 stroke because that is all that will be avaialable. Doesn't matter if I like it, it is all that will be available. What am I going to do ? Stop fishing! I don't think so.
Old Fishermen Never Die, They just smell that way ! |
|
|
|
tbonez
Average Member
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2009 : 9:31:20 PM
|
| bigjohn,just buy an E-TEC then.they'll be around. |
|
|
|
live to fish
Advanced Member
USA
793 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2009 : 11:17:15 AM
|
Look at it this way, us 2 strokers have the top of the line engines in the 2 stroke market. The guys with 4 strokes have 8 track players that will be obsolete once Yamaha unveils there new line of 4 bangers. Basically what you guys have are the 8 track players of 4 strokes.
Check out the specks on the F225 Sport. That is the beginning of the new generation of 4 strokes.
Pathfinder 2200 TE Fighting Lady Yellow 200 HPDI Vmax <")}}}}*>< |
|
|
|
JD
Advanced Member
642 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2009 : 12:03:45 PM
|
| The 225 Sport is nothing more than the currant 225 V-6 4 stroke with a 20" shaft. |
|
|
|
live to fish
Advanced Member
USA
793 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2009 : 1:27:55 PM
|
It's also lighter with more HP.
Pathfinder 2200 TE Fighting Lady Yellow 200 HPDI Vmax <")}}}}*>< |
|
|
|
merlot
Average Member
USA
304 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 3:56:28 PM
|
Looking at the specs on Yamaha's website the Standard 225hp 4-Stroke 25" shaft motor weighs in at 583 lbs. whereas the 225hp 4-Stroke Sport 20" shaft weighs in at 586 lbs. Based on that info the Sport 225 weighs 3 lbs. more even though it has 5" less shaft length.
As far as the debate between 2 stroke vs. 4 stroke goes... I like my 4 stroke and prefer it over the 2 strokes, but for those that have 2 strokes and like them then more power to them. If I were running a 2 stroke I wouldn't go out and buy a new 4 stroke unless my motor crashed. Given the cost of the new motors I'd get as many hours out of it as I could before converting to the newer technology. |
Edited by - merlot on 11/07/2009 3:57:33 PM |
|
|
|
JD
Advanced Member
642 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 6:58:08 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by merlot
Looking at the specs on Yamaha's website the Standard 225hp 4-Stroke 25" shaft motor weighs in at 583 lbs. whereas the 225hp 4-Stroke Sport 20" shaft weighs in at 586 lbs. Based on that info the Sport 225 weighs 3 lbs. more even though it has 5" less shaft length.
Hmmm. go figure.
Can you verify the 225 makes more hp than the regular 4 stroke?
By law, neither can make over 247.5 hp
and if it did make over 226 hp, leagally you could have called it a 250
|
Edited by - JD on 11/07/2009 7:06:14 PM |
|
|
|
merlot
Average Member
USA
304 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 8:21:12 PM
|
Quote:"Can you verify the 225 makes more hp than the regular 4 stroke?"
Quote:"It's also lighter with more horsepower."
I believe they are identical. The F250 outperforms the Sport 225 so the Sport's HP must be less than that of the F250. The Sport is nothing more than a 20" shaft version of the F225. Engine blocks and gear ratios are identical. The "Sport" filled a market glich for demand among boats with 20" transoms. |
Edited by - merlot on 11/07/2009 8:23:57 PM |
|
|
|
JD
Advanced Member
642 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2009 : 12:04:32 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by JD
The 225 Sport is nothing more than the currant 225 V-6 4 stroke with a 20" shaft.
Yup. |
|
|
|
Murf
Average Member
USA
247 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2009 : 8:12:15 PM
|
Man... See what happens when you don't check in for a few days...?? I totally missed out on a good argument. LOL!
I run a 5 year old Yamaha 2 stroke and I'm happy with it. It starts the first time, every time I turn the key (sometimes on the second crank...). I love the sound, smell and power of a two stroke. It reminds me of riding 2 stroke dirt bikes as a kid.
I think my 2 stroke will last a long time, but if it ever blows up I will replace it with a 4 stroke. In my opinion, that's where the outboard industry is focusing their attention. They are aggressively promoting the 4 strokes and I think for good reason. I love my 2 stroke but they are being phased out. New technology is the 4 stroke. In just a few years, I'm sure the big names will have 4 strokes (only) that will be lighter and more fuel efficient and have more torque than the 2 strokes.
I love my 2 stroke but I just think they are going away.
Murf |
|
|
|
Hardbottom
Junior Member
84 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2009 : 8:59:08 PM
|
My take on this is there are 2 distinct issues, emissions and reliability.
There are pros and cons to both 2 strokes and 4 strokes and the technology between the different manufacturers varies greatly. There is a common misconception that 2 strokes have higher emissions than 4 strokes and this is not necessarily the case and again varies by minufacturer and technology. The most common measurement I hear of outboard emissions is the CARB rating. There is a great explanation of the CARB rating on Mercury's web page here
http://www.mercurymarine.com/serviceandwarranty/outboardfaqs/carb.php
If you look at the data here you will see Merc's Optimax 2 stroke technology has a 3 Star rating and its Verado 4 stroke is only a 2 star rating.
The information is inverted for Yamaha with most of the 4 stroke engines having a 3 star rating and the HPDI's having a 2 star
Etech's are 3 star
Suzuki's are 3 star
The government does not regulate whether or a not an engine manufacturer makes a 2 stroke or 4 stroke rather they look at the entire product line for overall emissions. This means if someone wants to keep manufacturing pre-mix 2 stroke outboards the government does not care as long as there is enough low emission products in their product line to keep the overall average at the required level.
Reliability of 2 stroke versus 4 stroke is an entirely different subject and much more subjective. I have blown powerheads on traditional 2 strokes and have also had a 4 stroke Suzuki blow with less than 100 hours, sometimes just the luck of the draw. |
|
|
|
tbonez
Average Member
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2009 : 12:42:39 PM
|
| hardbottom,ur post is spot on!you said a mouthful.seems that you've done your homework. |
|
|
|
ajlandry
Moderator
USA
1571 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2009 : 4:44:36 PM
|
"Ditto" Hardbottom. Your info is "spot on"! Good work in your research.
"Pete" - Live every day like there's no tomorrow - go fishing! |
|
|
|
Hardbottom
Junior Member
84 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2009 : 9:42:06 PM
|
Thanks guys
On a personal note I have gone from 2 stroke to 4 stroke and now to a Yamaha 250 HPDI. Nothing against the Opti I would buy one and not think twice. Etec ?? maybe with the enough warranty. My decision to go 2 stroke was based on performance on my specific boat and local dealer support.
I would love to see an engine with the hole shot, weight advantage, and performance of a 2 stroke, the quite operation of a 4 stroke and reliability Yamaha has a reputation for. Regardless I think Yamaha would be making a mistake to completely eliminate the HPDI without some time going buy to prove this new technology. Further Bass boat and performance guys tend to be hardcore 2 stroke fans and will not like abrupt change. There are diehard HPDI guys out there that will be running to get the last HPDI's if this turns out to be how Yamaha goes to market with this engine. |
|
|
|
live to fish
Advanced Member
USA
793 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 1:47:13 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by JD
quote:
Originally posted by merlot
Looking at the specs on Yamaha's website the Standard 225hp 4-Stroke 25" shaft motor weighs in at 583 lbs. whereas the 225hp 4-Stroke Sport 20" shaft weighs in at 586 lbs. Based on that info the Sport 225 weighs 3 lbs. more even though it has 5" less shaft length.
Hmmm. go figure.
Can you verify the 225 makes more hp than the regular 4 stroke?
By law, neither can make over 247.5 hp
and if it did make over 226 hp, leagally you could have called it a 250
I want to take my post back. I was listening to a guy that claimed he worked for Yamaha. Evedently he doesn't. I checked into it myself and I stand corrected. But I still ain't givin' up my V-max. haha
Pathfinder 2200 TE Fighting Lady Yellow 200 HPDI Vmax <")}}}}*>< |
|
|
|
JD
Advanced Member
642 Posts |
|
|
ajlandry
Moderator
USA
1571 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 4:05:48 PM
|
WOW J.D.............that is "ONE MEAN LOOKING MACHINE"! Any idea how this compares to the equivalent Hp "2 stokes" in weight?
"Pete" - Live every day like there's no tomorrow - go fishing! |
Edited by - ajlandry on 11/14/2009 4:06:40 PM |
|
|
|
JOHN C
Advanced Member
USA
2024 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 8:10:15 PM
|
Yamaha 200 HPDI 25" shaft weighs in @475 lbs.!!! 1.86 gear ratio-John Castelluccio, Jr.
New SUV-'06 Yukon, new 56 yoa house, new boat-'06 Avenger, Semi-retired-'07, soon to get "new-wife"-'09 and in debt for the rest of my life-Now&4-ever!!! |
|
|
|
JD
Advanced Member
642 Posts |
|
|
Topic |
|
Sportsman's Paradise Vol 09-37
New 2010 Yamaha Engines
